Curse

Angel Killuminati · Jun 28, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

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Originally Posted by Arduinna

As long as there is a character that can use a bow and arrow I'm happy. Or a gun, Or lazors.

A gun class would be cool, rifle for long range, (like longbow) shotgun for close quarters (like shortbow) and some dual pistols for the novelty factor, all in awesome skins.

The character needs to have a wide brimmed hat too, and a black cloak/coat. Awesome!

Skyy High · Jun 28, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

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Originally Posted by Angel Killuminati

I heard a while ago that certain classes will only be available for certain races, is this true?

We have no idea.

My quick thought: we know that professions can't (or shouldn't) be restricted for humans and Charr, because we can see in the current game that these races have access to every profession. Therefore, it wouldn't make terribly much sense, balance-wise, for the other races to be restricted as to which professions they can play.

Shadowmere · Jun 28, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I do hope they don't ditch the new classes, or if they do they had better integrate their abilities with the core classes as has been suggested tons. Also all classes should be available for all races otherwise it'd just be frustrating (especially considering that it sounds like they'll be specifically playing races against each other, meaning the human special class can't play with the charr special class)

one thing I think would be good is to have a "race" attribute regardless of class that would offer special skills for being a(n) <insert race here>.

While this might make some classes of a certain race better than others if not balanced right, if done right it would allow each race to feel unique even on the same class, also the skills or benefits of the race attribute should be varied in order to offer something for every class, that way you have some incentive to make a norn ele over an asura ele, etc.

Bob Slydell · Jun 28, 2009, 09:57 PM // 21:57

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I was thinking about this last night. We know there will be a new race coming into GW2, the lovable tree/nature type characters, Sylvari, but what will the professions be and will they be race specific. I heard a while ago that certain classes will only be available for certain races, is this true?

I think there will be first, a race choice screen where you can choose your race. Then you can choose a profession on another screen. And I think each race will have it's own benefits to different classes of professions but It won't matter if you for example make an Asuran Warrior or a Norn elementalist, lol. (For those of you who wanna attack me and say that sounds like WoW, stfu and go look at EverQuest II. I've never played WoW, that stupid overhyped MMO)

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For example, the core professions like Warrior, Monk and Elementalist will possibly be available for all races, as in EotN there are rare Asuran Warriors etc, even though they would be too small to actively be a hardcore warrior, but hey ho, lol.

Similar to what I mentioned above but I think classes itself would be powerful enough to have an Asuran Warrior be as good as a Norn Warrior. Races would simply be a cosmetic choice and a few special racial spells choices as well.

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What about Ritualist? Are they going to be destroyed? Is the Necromancer going to be carried on?

I think they would probably bring them over, hopefully. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't since they listen to morons who don't like this and that and ruin it for the rest of the good players.

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Oola in EotN is a talented Necromancer, highly regarded. So perhaps they will be the only species of character who can choose the Necromancer class. They specialise in magic, so Elementalist would be the obvious choice as an Asuran, but the dark arts and manipulating magic could lead them to be a perfect Necromancer class.

The Norn obviously pride themselves on the hunt, so Warrior and Ranger wpuld be obvious choices for their species. But what about the new Sylvari race. If they are at ease with their surroundings and nature, it sounds very much like a Ranger type species of creature.

Looking at the Charr, a fire elementalist brought on the searing, but they have shown that they have many professions, warrior, and even a ritualist has been seen during the mission where you have to rescue captive Charr friends of Pyre Fierceshot. Would they be profession specific?

Humans could perhaps be the only race that studies the Assassin art. The skill Vanguard Assassins perhaps points to this, as well as Vael, Anton and Zenmai being human who help you in your travels. All assassin heroes are human. But I've heard that assassins will be killed off.

I seriously hope races aren't limited to certain professions, that would make the game a little stagnant over time not having a big diverse selection of race to class combos. Races should have their racial bonuses, but not be enough to shape their class they choose and make an Asuran Elementalist be able to pwn a Norn elemantalist unfairly at both the same exact level and equipment. Simply cosmetic and some "fun" racial spells, like water breathing, a random knockdown.. some sort of damage ward but not enough to actually make anyone more powerful than another.

To answer it all, I think Races are going to be cosmetic choices with a few "fun" racial spells thrown in. I think anyone should be able to choose ANY race and class combo and be just as good as anyone else, (no overpowered asuran ele and wean norn ele..etc..etc)

Humans should be the "balanced" race and offer racial spells that are balanced to any class, like an asura would get spell caster bonuses and a norn would get strength bonuses. But make these racial bonuses make the difference only at low levels and just make them not matter as much farther on down toe road. No one wants to make a Caster race a Warrior and then think they messed their char up and wanna delete. Everything should be able to fit together perfectly.

Tender Wolf · Jun 28, 2009, 10:34 PM // 22:34

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Originally Posted by Chrisworld

Humans should be the "balanced" race and offer racial spells that are balanced to any class, like an asura would get spell caster bonuses and a norn would get strength bonuses. But make these racial bonuses make the difference only at low levels and just make them not matter as much farther on down toe road. No one wants to make a Caster race a Warrior and then think they messed their char up and wanna delete. Everything should be able to fit together perfectly.

I don't know about that, that sounds too much like certain profs are only available for certain races. If it's only for low levels it might be okay, but...yeah. I think the only "bonus" a race should have is the attribute tied to its race (Norn = bear form).

Me, I'm not going to base my chars on what their bonus is - it's all about the storylines and appearances. But that's just me.

Bob Slydell · Jun 28, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

I don't know about that, that sounds too much like certain profs are only available for certain races. If it's only for low levels it might be okay, but...yeah. I think the only "bonus" a race should have is the attribute tied to its race (Norn = bear form).

Me, I'm not going to base my chars on what their bonus is - it's all about the storylines and appearances. But that's just me.

If it turns out like I explained it im gonna make something weird like an Asuran Warrior lol.

Megas XLR · Jun 28, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

It's a tricky situation. You don't want to be forced to play a certain race to effectively play your profession, but at the same time it would feel almost like a cop out if the races didn't get some sort of difference between them other than aesthetically.

I'll 100% play human, I like to play characters that reflect what I look like. So let's hope they do some sort of awesome melee scythe stuff with them ;D

Chthon · Jun 28, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

To be honest, I hope that the class mechanic is abandoned entirely. It exists for the purpose of limiting player power by restricting the breadth of access to potential abilities. The problem, as a-net has learned, is that breaking up the ability set into equally desirable subsets for each class is all but impossible. I'd much rather see an entirely different mechanic restricting the breadth of access to potential abilities.

Shewmake · Jun 29, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I think that, if the Norn, Charr, Sylvari, and Asura have access to race-specific abilities or allies (G.O.L.E.M.s), then the humans should have an extra profession. I honestly don't see the humans being able to do something other races can't.

Edit: Well, we know the Norn will be able to transform & Asura will most likely be able to use their golems. The Sylvari will most likely have an ability of their own & same w/ the Charr.

Bryant Again · Jun 29, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

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Originally Posted by upier

I don't care about stale, I care about pretty.
You should see the mother of all hissy fits I threw when I tried WoW and saw I couldn't make a pretty druid! (And don't get me started on the shitstorm that followed after I was told that I can't play with the guys of the opposite faction.)
Bloody bastards!

On the Night Elf side? Agreed, hate me some fem NE's...

But on the Tauren side? Holy crap they have some foxy moo-cow mama's!

Shewmake · Jun 29, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Wait a sec...my statement condtradicted itself. -_-

I can't see non-human races being unable to do things humans can, yet there should be an extra human profession? lol...

FoxBat · Jun 29, 2009, 12:52 AM // 00:52

As much as people laud the core 6, I think there was a big mistake there. The necromancer was too shallow of a pvp class, and the mesmer too shallow for PvE. The illusion line is mostly a weaker curses with some double cast time tacked on, blood has never done anything good or fun for the game, and inspiration is very narrow as a pure emanage attribute. An attribute about minion armies and relying on corpse exploition/reaping are inherently difficult to balance in every game and might as well be forgotten about. Both classes also run into problematic areas with the debuff mechanics in this game (hexes). Top that all off with mesmers being the red-headed stepchild regardless of the power they later gained in PvE.

Generally we'd have been better off with the ele taking up the anti-melee role and a necro/mesmer hybrid doing anti-caster and debuffs/degen. Also minion(s) that don't rely as much on vageries of corpses and come in smaller numbers. I basically just described a warlock...

Pistachio · Jun 29, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

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Originally Posted by Short

If the professions are limited to a specific race, ANet would be making a big mistake. A BIG one. I want a hammer Asura!

I agree. Or if they go the "this race is more suited for this class" route I'll be unhappy as well. What's the point in making classes available to all races when there are clear cut ways to make a "superior" warrior/monk/ele/etc. with a specific combination? I can't stand it when game developers do that. It is, after all, a video game and does not need to be so formulaic. Let me suspend my disbelief and let my mini Asura run around with a massive hammer.

Racthoh · Jun 29, 2009, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Hopefully races serve the same purpose as elite weapons and armors do now. Vanity purposes only. There's no sense trying to balance X number of classes and Y number of racial traits. If they've learned anything from Guild Wars it's that trying to balance too many things leads to disaster. There's no sense reducing the number of available skills just to have an equal number of race problems replace them.

If anything is going to be race dependent then make it the vanity weapons and armor.

Shriketalon · Jun 29, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

On the other hand, races could have skills that bolster one line or the other as long as they do something else.

Allow us to change class.

Simply put, we shouldn't be able to make a character that fails, one who you level up, spend time on, then arrive at the final level of the game only to hear that your race/class combination is useless or inferior.

That may mean that race is cosmetic.

Or it might mean that race is the only choice in the game we make only once. If my Sylvari warrior takes up archery, I can change to ranger, for example. Or if the party needs a healer, my Charr pyromancer takes a turn monking so the team can pull through.

That would also help with world design; you can have a mission that favors running skills because everyone can change into a class with speed boosts, or feature defensive goals which require more healers and micromanagement.

And all throughout, you can't end up with an Assuran Warrior who is inferior to his Norn Warrior friend, and therefore can't get a group. Nor will your Charr Ranger always outclass a human.

And if you want to see everything and do everything in the game, you only need five characters, one per race.

Arkantos · Jun 29, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

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Originally Posted by Racthoh

Hopefully races serve the same purpose as elite weapons and armors do now. Vanity purposes only. There's no sense trying to balance X number of classes and Y number of racial traits. If they're learned anything from Guild Wars it's that trying to balance too many things leads to disaster. There's no sense reducing the number of available skills just to have an equal number of race problems replace them.

If anything is going to be race dependent then make it the vanity weapons and armor.

This. ANet have a hard time balancing skills now, wait until they have to balance skills and racial traits....oh, the horror.

Bryant Again · Jun 29, 2009, 03:40 AM // 03:40

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Originally Posted by Arkantos

This. ANet have a hard time balancing skills now, wait until they have to balance skills and racial traits....oh, the horror.

The sting I always got when I didn't roll a Gnome Warrior : (

Please don't do the same to GW2 k thx

Ryssul Sylverhart · Jun 29, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

I don't know about that, that sounds too much like certain profs are only available for certain races. If it's only for low levels it might be okay, but...yeah. I think the only "bonus" a race should have is the attribute tied to its race (Norn = bear form).

Going off of this, maybe the racial-specific attributes don't necessarily have to be a "bonus" for playing that race (such as, if you're a Norn, it's a given that you're stronger than a human), but more along the lines that all the races have obvious attributes that come with being that race, that are all perfectly balanced with all the other races' attributes as well (I hope that made an ounce of sense). It'd be akin to...well, if you're a Charr, you're obviously going to be furry in nature. The bonus of being one isn't the fact that you have fur; that's a given!

I kind of think of it like (don't laugh...) Pokemon. Just about every type is weak to some other but strong against another; no bonuses or nothing special about any certain element. Like, maybe the Norn would be stronger than a human, but the human is more agile and can attack faster. Which would you choose? Maybe the human is fast, but the Charr is hearty and has high defense. The Charr could be weak against the magic prowess of the Asura, who are overwhelmed by the hivemind of Sylvari, who are weak against the strength of the Norn. And it goes on and on and makes a great web. I don't know. I think it would be a little bit more interesting to have (keyword: balanced) racial attributes instead of just them being a purely cosmetic thing. It would definitely add a deeper sense of immersion and could be quite an interesting mechanic to play around with. You could go far with it. What would be the point of giving us the option to play as Charr if it's not at all different from being a human? Coolness factor? Gee, then they might as well ditch GW2 and just give us Tonics to use outside.

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It's a tricky situation. You don't want to be forced to play a certain race to effectively play your profession, but at the same time it would feel almost like a cop out if the races didn't get some sort of difference between them other than aesthetically.

This. And I REALLY hope they don't tie races to professions. Worst idea ever.

FoxBat · Jun 29, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I've said this before, but look at the pve skills in eotn... each associated with a specific race. I would not be surprised if race choice limited you to a subset of pve (+ mist battle?) skills, and that plus vanity were the only factors. Though there would still be some "best" combinations, that is far less limiting than dealing with attribute bonuses - and not as big a deal if you take away skills like assassin's promise.

zwei2stein · Jun 29, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

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Originally Posted by upier

I don't care about stale, I care about pretty.
You should see the mother of all hissy fits I threw when I tried WoW and saw I couldn't make a pretty druid! (And don't get me started on the shitstorm that followed after I was told that I can't play with the guys of the opposite faction.)
Bloody bastards!

Tauren druids are pretty, you furhater!